Curse

twicky_kid · Mar 11, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Many of the Core and Prophecies skills have had nerfs and buffs since the other chapters were released, it may not be possible to recreate the balanced feel of a couple of years ago even if you wanted to.

Most of its been buffed more than nerfed. Even the nerfed versions have been staple skills since day 1.

Its possible.

wuzzman · Mar 11, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

not really. there are plenty of stuff you can't get away with anymore even with factions and nightfalls out of the picture. Running 2 man gank with heal sig and troll urgent is bound to fail regardless.

angmar_nite · Mar 11, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I would love a reroll to 2 years back. In general. Just saying. Then putting Ensign in charge of balancing.

twicky_kid · Mar 11, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

not really. there are plenty of stuff you can't get away with anymore even with factions and nightfalls out of the picture. Running 2 man gank with heal sig and troll urgent is bound to fail regardless.

Yes but the fundamental difference is no mending touch and shadow stepping.

NPCs are way weaker than they used to be in Prophecies.

erk · Mar 11, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Most of its been buffed more than nerfed. Even the nerfed versions have been staple skills since day 1.

Its possible.

The Necro skills had a lot of nerfs. eg. Soul Reaping from spirits/pets etc.

Elementalist Wards use to effect Ranger spirits until the week Factions came out.

Earshot range use to be larger,

Aegis use to have a radar range.

There are a huge number of other changes if you want to ferret through the update notes archives.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...hive-index.php

Anarandil · Mar 11, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

I can't believe people haven't realized that this isn't going to happen.

Dzan · Mar 11, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarandil

I can't believe people haven't realized that this isn't going to happen.

Why? They did a Factions only tournament, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at all.

DutchSmurf · Mar 11, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

NPCs are way weaker than they used to be in Prophecies.

I thought they were stronger now then before. They are with more for sure. Except for the second bodyguard that got traded for 2 knights, I don't remember much changing until the ViO update.

But really, looking at your last posts, I think your memory is a bit failing. Yes, there have been more buffs then nerfs, but if you look at what exactly has been changed, the nerfs were all far more important. Many skills that got buffed didn't even make it into RA. There are only a couple skills that got nerfed (some more then once), but are still used. Diversion and Eviscerate are examples of that.

And ontopic, it just won't happen. Maybe for a weekend, maybe we get a limited tournament once (maybe after the real prizes stop), but not more then that.

twicky_kid · Mar 11, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

I thought they were stronger now then before. They are with more for sure. Except for the second bodyguard that got traded for 2 knights, I don't remember much changing until the ViO update.

The number is about the same minus the 1 bodyguard but the real difference is positioning. There are more NPCs outside the inner base but the total number remains the same. They are just easier to kill now because of isolation.

There used to be 6 archers and 2 bodyguards in base + GL.

Now its 2 knights (which are easily isolated and killed) 1 body guard and a few archers. In prophecies you never dared entered the inner base solo and always required at least some form of healing to survive. There was a reason warriors carried wands back then. Charge your adrenaline, prot the war, and spike a body guard. You could never stay in the inner base more than a few seconds before you died or drained your monks energy. After factions and the 1 body guard gone you could rush in any time you liked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

And ontopic, it just won't happen. Maybe for a weekend, maybe we get a limited tournament once (maybe after the real prizes stop), but not more then that.

Sadly you are correct. There is no benefit for Anet to fix GW or make it a classic game. GW2 is coming. I can predict as GW2 gets closer to release something will change the game to make it more unbearable than it already is to move people into GW2.

Keithark · Mar 11, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

in-case anyone wants to vote...here is a post from a while back with a poll about this subject

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10250276

DutchSmurf · Mar 11, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

There used to be 6 archers and 2 bodyguards in base + GL.

Now its 2 knights (which are easily isolated and killed) 1 body guard and a few archers.

Just did a count on Uncharted Isle and came to 1 bodyguard, 2 knights, 2 footmen and 9 archers. And most archers are in groups of 2 now, instead of alone. Add that those archers actually got an extra skill since then and I would say the npcs are stronger now.
On Druids it is 9 archers too, but again, mostly in groups of 2 or at least in each others range.

I also don't remember more archers being on the inside. That number is still the same as far as I know. It is true you can lure the knights away and kill them first tho. But if you don't get to them before VoD, I think the 2 knights are more dangerous then the second bodyguard was.

And no, they won't make GW1 GvG unbearable, since investing time and money in 1% of your playerbase to make them move to GW2 is a waste. You could have an argument if this was the PvE part of the forum.

Kaon · Mar 11, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

NPCs right now are twice as powerful as they used to be, twicky just has a bad memory. The amount increased significantly, their positioning increased, their skills increased, there are knights which dish out much more damage than the bodyguard, and of course the retarded adding of headshotskills.

Then again back then not everyone carried double or triple aegis (something which is happening less now after gole nerf as well) so having 2 archers advantage did mean a big deal.

All in all its very clear that back then the game was much more balanced, also because you could create your OWN playstyle and own with it, instead of everyone doing the same thing over and over again.

erk · Mar 12, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

And no, they won't make GW1 GvG unbearable, since investing time and money in 1% of your playerbase to make them move to GW2 is a waste. You could have an argument if this was the PvE part of the forum.

It's a credibility exercise for PR, lets face it if A.net orphan the GW PvP players, then guess what they will do it with GW2 as well. Same people, same procedures. I mean the monthly AT's are for PR, not the masses. Half the PvE players probably have no idea what the Tournament NPC in their guild hall is for.

twicky_kid · Mar 12, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

NPCs right now are twice as powerful as they used to be, twicky just has a bad memory. The amount increased significantly, their positioning increased, their skills increased, there are knights which dish out much more damage than the bodyguard, and of course the retarded adding of headshotskills.

The real difference is back then we didn't have the insignias buffing our life to 600+. Yes they do more dmg but only slightly.

The number count I gave was the NPCs around the GL not in the entire base.

Imo, its easier to kill the NPCs now because the reduced numbers around the guild lord, knights being easily isolated and killed as well as all the outer NPCs.

2 bodyguards dropping maelstrom and fireballs in a tiny area compared to 1 that can be interrupted makes all the difference. Knights can deal dmg sure AFTER they break through aegis, ward vs melee, and DA. Any frontline warrior can tell you how well that bodes.

I don't know how long its been since I've seen a team come back and win after a turtle. In prophecies that was completely possible.

wuzzman · Mar 12, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

yeah I remember running around with 550-590 health on casters, body guards were defiantly more powerful then knights, things like glph of sacrfice + meteor shower was prone to wipe VoD advantage, or just push out a turtleing team.

As far as not having as much aegis now as then, it was simply a matter of monks had a better more solid build that didn't require as much midline baby sitting as the monks we have now. They had the boon/prot that turned reversal of fortune into a 140+ spot heal, enough energy management to do without a heal party, and it's own built in hexstack/daze removal. Even if you did run hexway, you'll just be powering the boon/prots energy engine(though you didn't have nightfalls super water ele's back then so it was a little harder).

Compare that to what we have now, even during factions when mobility encouraged bringing off monk condition removal(which was an option before) and heal party(also something optional) to support the blessed light/a monks. Nightfalls happened and mo/a and heal party emo just couldn't cut it, and by then players got smarter and less freedom was in the flag runners position. I remember in prophecies and even in factions when there were distinct disadvantages to running a monk as a flagger. And now a days even with the glph of lesser energy nerf and the fact that paragons are taking mirror of disenchantments, monks are till clingy to that what ever seconds of aegis that can get before they blow up.

DreamWind · Mar 12, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

The more I play this game, the more I think that the brief periods of time in the past when Guild Wars was somewhat balanced were simply fluke miracles. I'm not convinced its ever going to happen again unless we go back in time. I don't even think Anet realizes what they had.

DutchSmurf · Mar 12, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The real difference is back then we didn't have the insignias buffing our life to 600+. Yes they do more dmg but only slightly.

I don't know how long its been since I've seen a team come back and win after a turtle. In prophecies that was completely possible.

So why are you arguing that npcs got weaker when the real difference is the players getting stronger?

And the second part has more to do with the faster VoD then anything else. And with teams making less mistakes. After getting ganked a couples of times, people do figure out how to counter it. Not really surprising that after 3 years of practice it hardly happens anymore.

twicky_kid · Mar 13, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

So why are you arguing that npcs got weaker when the real difference is the players getting stronger?

And the second part has more to do with the faster VoD then anything else. And with teams making less mistakes. After getting ganked a couples of times, people do figure out how to counter it. Not really surprising that after 3 years of practice it hardly happens anymore.

18 minutes of till VoD has nothing to do with teams blowing up while turtling inside their inner base around the GL. If you are ever caught in a turtle position against a team with half decent sense the game is most likely over. That's simply because of the game design and not skill.

Yes the NPCs do slightly more dmg than they used to but you have more life that was my point. In the end it comes out to being the same. That 1 bodyguard less is what makes them much much weaker. The aoe and interruption that 2 bodyguards is key to being able to defend your inner base. Once that was removed you just stream roll them in seconds.

Because of the power creep from expansions and most of your normal layers of defense doesn't affect NPCs they are easily killed. Saying that using all prophecies is a bad idea because of the NPCs is not a well thought out argument. NPCs are weaker due to positioning and isolation.

wuzzman · Mar 13, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

geez I don't want to go back to the old gvg caster spike days....